This is kind of an open-ended question, as our guild (and I would imagine other guilds) are struggling with this.

The Altaholic is the culprit

The scenario that every guild wants to avoid is the “altaholic” that gears up toon after toon.

At worst, he’s an obnoxious leach, expecting everyone to be enthusiastic about dragging his newest alt through the same content the guild already ran over and over with his last few alts.   He probably has a tenuous grasp on class mechanics of the newest toy in his arsenal.

At best, he gears up outside the guild, and is actually competent at his class. but it still feels like loot given to the latest in a string of alts is a waste.

Basic Concerns

Why to limit alts/offspecs in raiding:

  • “Wasted” loot
  • Class mastery (or lack thereof)
  • Additional resources outside raiding to “catch up”.

Why alts/offspecs are beneficial:

  • Creating class balance so a raid can happen
  • Providing alts for a separate raid ID
  • Preventing burnout
  • Versatility within raid (i.e. healer swaps to DPS for specific fights)

Our guild: Using EPGP

Because we were starting to do 25’s again, we reinstituted EPGP for loot distribution, since free rolls work pretty well in a 10 man but not so well in 25’s where pieces of loot are desirable to more than 1-2 people in the raid.   EPGP has the added side-effect of encouraging people to focus on one toon and one spec.

So far it doesn’t seem like it’s necessary to restrict people to main toon/main spec when they’re spending their EPGP.  In theory, people will hold out and spend their “priority” on items that benefit their main spec, and not waste it on off-spec items.

Spending EPGP on off-spec items

I’ve already had the opportunity to beat out a rogue for cat loot, and I chose not to, just out of “fairness”.   I’m not sure if guildies would have been peeved if I had rolled, even though  I use my cat spec, or at least would like to, and have worked diligently to get that gear up to par with my healing set.  (Actually now I’m pretty sure they’d be peeved, looking at the responses to Hana’s and Keeva’s posts on rolling off-spec in instances using the “LFG” tool.)

I wonder how I’d feel if the bear tank had chosen to spend his EPGP on spellpower leather for his boomkin set. Would it matter how often he got to play boomkin?  Or whether he preferred DPS to tanking and was only tanking to take one for the team?

Alts in raids

I wonder what will happen when we ask someone to bring an alt to make the raid work.  EPGP stays with the toon – but is that fair to the mage who really wanted to bring the mage and only brings the warrior so that we can have the raid happen at all?

What if that alt-warrior gains loot that the main warrior wanted?  On the one hand, it benefits the guild to have the main-warrior geared better than an infrequently used alt.  On the other hand, the alt won’t be useful for situations where we don’t have sufficient tanks if we don’t gear him at all.


1.   What is the main/alt/off-spec policy of your guild?

2. What is the raiding loot system used?

3.   Are you happy with the main/alt/off-spec policy and the raiding loot systems?   What are the problems, if any?

4.   What is your raiding program like? Do you do primarily 10’s or 25’s?   Where are you progression-wise?


How do you handle Mains, Off-Specs, and Alts in your Raiding Program? — 2 Comments

  1. Interesting post. I guess this really is an issue with big guilds, my guild somehow manages to avoid such problems by being 10M only. But to give you some answers:

    1.)The loot priority would be Main spec / used offspec / alt mainspec / offspec just for fun. Being 10M only guild with small roster, we preffer healers / tanks going dps rather than being benched, so many of us don't really have offspec, we have two mainspec that are used, which makes the decisions tough at times.

    2.)Loot with courtesy. You like item, you roll on it. Highest wins. If you like another item, you might or might not be skipped in favour of another loot contestant.

    3.)Well, I made them up so I should be. Fortunately all our raiders are mature enough not to fight over purples, and loot-drama is reason for instant gkick. Guess it is as well because there is just so few persons interested. As well, in tighter communities you are sad that you haven't got the upgrade, but you are as well happy it went to benefit the guild. Guess the only issue is with people "saving" their rolls for later bosses with chance for more juicy drops. Easily fixed with little nudge and hint that I am not getting to DE it and someone WILL TAKE IT NOW! :)

    4.) As mentioned above, 10s only. Lost interest in 25s way back. Progression wise hard to tell, as the old guild disbanded and the follower is still fighting roster issues. Capable of downing Putricide I'd say (damn spookie escaped twice with 300K left yesterday).

  2. 1. Mainset before Offset. We do have a 'don't be a dick' policy. Most of the alt players won't roll on stuff but are happy to take something if no one else wants it.

    2. We're using rolls with the raid leader (me) having the final say. Want to impliment an EPGP-like system but the one character everyone must be in one guild uses your bloody officer notes discourages people to take offfset flaws make me extremely hesitant. I've yet to find a coder to fix these issues.

    3. Yes and no. For the most part it works and most people don't really mind the alts too much, the altoholics know what everyone's mains are after and realize that there's higher benefit for the group for the mains to get sought after items. People care less if an alt that's used regularly to make things happen gets some gear. What upsets people is a poor preformer winning items over them, regardless of if it's a main or alt. (We have someone who is the stereotypical bad altoholic.) It's a problem with the /roll system, roll is mediocracy.

    4. We do 10s, transitioning to 25s. We've done one boss in ICC25 and 5/7 in ICC10, we're clearing TotC25 to help gear up the slackers as well as poking our DPS with a stick trying to get them to hit things harder.

    My guild's got about a half a dozen (6) altoholics (3+ characters). Of the six or so altoholics, five of them are players I would consider officers or core. They help other people, they do far more than their fair share. They understand the mechanics of the game from multiple perspectives and pretty good class mastery, they're some of our strongest players.

    I actually get tells from people asking if we have alts available to help fill out their runs, we're known to be knowledgable flexible easygoing players who don't suck.

    Thanks to the new dungeon system, altoholics can go and run dungenons alone without asking for help, and getting into all 232 gear means easy slipping into totc25 and icc10 runs, this enables the flexibility of altoholics even more.

    I don't think the altoholic is the culprit so much as the loot whore, the well-poisoning drama queen, the e-skank, and the needy attention whore who's just too darn annoying. These behaviors may simply be amplified in altoholics because they are more active.

    EPGP. I wrote a blurb on EPGP on my guild's forum but it looks like I never posted it in my blog (aside from asking for someone to modify / alter EPGP / EPGP Master Looter to utilize something like the SharedData modules found in the Altoholic addon).

    EPGP being a mediocracy gives everyone reward for showing up. Adding bonus points for good preformance turns it into a meritocracy. Must be defined to avoid loldrama. Giving people rewards when you catch them doing something right.

    Having multiple pools of EPGP would help with the offset / alt issues as well as multiple tiers of raiding. It could also be used to encourage people to help each other.

    I'll take some time to blabber this to the full extent later.