Kurn has an excellent post about women who raid – like hard-core raid, not the casual raiding that I do – and it got me thinking.

In the seemingly-neverending train of gender-related posts going on nowadays, I need to put in my opinion.  Cause, you know, I’m important.

I’m a mommy.  I don’t hard-core raid because I don’t have the time.  Well don’t “have” is a misnomer.  You can always make the time, at the expense of other stuff.  I’m not willing to do that.  Priorities, right?  Time when the baby is sleeping is fair raid time, but it has to share with other after-bedtime activities like doing dishes and laundry.

Now, if I were willing to take on the lion’s share of the housework, and put the baby to bed, that would free up the husband to hard-core-raid, and I’d probably not have time to play at all.  Or we could do vice versa.  Whatever.  But as we do things 50/50, there’s just no room for both of us to hard-core raid, and we could only swing it for one of us if the other got the proverbial shaft.

Not every family is 50/50.  In some families, the wifey does the lion’s share of the baby care and housework.  Is that fair?  No.  But it does free up the husband to hard-core-raid.

So to recap:

  • Not possible to hard-core raid in a 50/50 household with children.
  • Possible for one partner to hard-core raid in a 80/20 household with children.
  • If the household is 80/20, it’s likely that wifey is the one doing the 80.
  • TADA!


The Short-Short Version: Why Some Women are Not Hard-Core Raiders — 24 Comments

  1. *high fives*

    I’m not a mommy, but this is a post. I’m glad you and hubby can actually split 50/50, since I’ve raided with a lot of people that either had to AFK a lot for kidlet aggro (usually women), or that were only able to raid because their SO was doing the bulk of housework/kidlet wrangling.

    Couples that split it make me a happy priesty. ?

    • We try to split the housework 50/50 and the raiding 50/50 (there are times when only one of us can raid while the other must be on “kid duty” – like when she is sick.)  I just can’t imagine having time to “hard core raid” on a 50/50 schedule.

  2. I guess I’m kind of in the middle. We progression raid, 12-16 hours a week (my husband and I both do), but we’re not hardcore. Our guild contains all adults and many husbands/wives/parents. “AFK bad dream,” “gotta go, kid woke up sick,” “BRB, throwing clothes in dryer,” or “BRB, wife going to work” [insert sophomoric kissy noises on vent] are not uncommon phrases in guild chat. The general consensus has always been RL > WoW, thank goodness.
    Our house is probably 70/30, but I think it’s pretty fair since I’m a stay-at-home mom. I’m taking care of our kids at home while he’s trying to placate all the political babies at his office (some of these people he works with, seriously!). He comes home, plays with the kids, takes out the trash, sweeps and vacuums (doesn’t cook because…well, I’m just better at it. lol). Then we put the kids to bed and (mostly) escape into Azeroth 3 or 4 nights a week.
    Works pretty well for us, but each family has to find its own balance.

    • I should clarify that we both raid, and progress (hehe 11/12 finally!), but we’re not HARD CORE, not like Kurn’s raiders that she lists.  We don’t do hardmodes, and more than 3 hours at a time for raiding is a huge burden.  If we’re both raiding, there’s always the chance that one of us will have to “BRB vomit” and the truly hard-core guilds aren’t going to tolerate that.

      • That’s very true, I definitely couldn’t raid super hardcore. I go AFK through most trash pulls a lot until both kids are solidly snoring (another glass of water, really?!).
        We’re on 9/12 hard modes right now, but it’s really stressing the guild out. People are getting severely burnt out and down right cranky.

  3. It’s been 16 years since I had a baby in my household. I have children but they’re pretty big now, which makes raiding possible even if you’re 50/50. However it boggles my mind how anyone can hard core raid with a newborn in the house. They must have gotten some other kind of babies than I got… I just wanted to point out that children come in many different ages. There will be time for harcore raiding in the future, if you’re still up for it by then. You can be a raiding mom very well. Just not when they’re that young.

    • Yeah, I’m not sure how that works either. I took 6 months off after the birth of my son. I missed all the first kills in BT from Reliquary to Illidan, but I didn’t miss my son’s first grin or his first giggle. I didn’t heal through the first Illidari Council kill, but I did get down on the floor with my son during Tummy Time. And, most importantly of all, I got to SLEEP! (!!!)
      Definitely made the right choice. I got to kill everything in BT…eventually. 😀

      • I confess, I did raid after Twig was born, mostly to keep my sanity.  Husband and I each raided once a week (hardly a huge schedule).  On my raiding nights, if Twig got hungry… well those breastfeeding pillows are hands-free har har.

        • I used to raid with Nomster on my lap on one of those pillows! Sometimes I’d sing the “Baby Wipes The Raid” song…. but tree healz r easy…

        • Oh I just saw this post and… I totally want one of these hand-free pillow! Mine is not handfree unfortunatly, so I haven’t raid since a few months except for a few Archavon runs during afternoon nap. My Choupinette is 4 months old and until 3 days ago she never slept before 10pm, hard to raid with this schedule!
          I don’t want to raid every night (I need some sleep^^) but a raid on weekends would be nice !

    • Oh true!  Twig is 2.5 right now.  Later on, things will be better.  At this point, the day she can wake up, go downstairs by herself, pour some cereal and turn on the TV on a Saturday morning is my idea of heaven.

  4. If Zel and ATT had to move to one of them raiding hardcore, we’d have to keep Zel. True story. I’m not sure how we got along without her tree heals. 😛

  5. I have a husband, but no kids, but I choose to raid with lots of people who do have kids, hectic work schedules, and basically, just can’t make scheduling their raid time a priority over other activities.
    I’ve been in more progressed guilds, but frankly, I’m just not up to the hassle of prioritizing WoW over the rest of my life anymore.  I also find the company to be much better where I’m sitting now.
    I’m actually fairly ambivalent about the entire project, because I think by default it says the rest of us are doing it wrong.  WoW can be played in a lot of ways, and making the epitome of “doing it right” completing H.M.’s seems bass-ackwards to me.
    Raiders who complete H.M.’s are not role-models for me because I don’t want to game that way.

    • True that.  Even without a kid, raiding was never my life.  I wonder if, even with all the time in the world, women are less likely to desire the hard-core raider lifestyle, but that’s pure speculation that I’m not really qualified to make.

  6. Windsoar, I really don’t think it’s fair to imply that Kurn’s post says the less hardcore are doing it wrong. I read it as an acknowledgment that some aspects of the game are seen more as the province of men than others–hard mode raiding being a big one. Kind of like keeping track of women professionals in male dominated fields. Do you object to a registry for say women engineers on the grounds that it implies women in other fields are doing it wrong? No, you say “good for women engineers, I didn’t realize there were so many of you out there.”

    I do see why it could be perceived as setting up an elite standard because the activity is the same… going back to our women engineers, saying only aerospace engineering counts might make chemical engineers feel left out, but it doesn’t mean there isn’t value in compiling the registry. It just isn’t about chemical engineers. Much like Kurn’s list isn’t a slight to casual or semi-progressed women raiders, it’s just not about us this time.

    Anyway, sorry for any bizarre typos that may emerge… I am testing out commenting from the phone.

    • I guess I am missing the point of the compilation.  There is no information about how many hard-core guilds qualify.  There is no information about how many players (in total) are in these guilds.  There is no information about how many of these players are in turn bloggers. This in turn doesn’t tell us whether women hard-core bloggers are a minority or majority of the entire pool in question.
      Without this information, it is, to me, merely a list of women we should respect for their achievement.  Recognizing that I have a generalized problem with authority, my immediate reaction is “nope, not happening.” I don’t respect people for their roles, jobs, or education, I respect them for themselves and their good works.  Respecting someone for their “perseverance” in a game world does not compute for me.
      That being said, I know for a lot of people, that type of listing/dedication does compute, and they either need the recognition, or recognize the need of others for role-models for success.  I am not suggesting that the project is entirely without merit, just that I’m personally ambivalent about it.
      (Whoo, hope that clarified–I should be more specific up-front I think).

      • For me, I feel like the list would make hard-core-raiding-knowledge more “accessible”.  Not so much that these are WOMEN bloggers, but they are bloggers that I already know and read.  It feels like “hey, if she can do it, I totally can to.”  Not that I’m going to hard core raid, but still… if I had a question about hard-core raiding or hardmodes, I’d feel comfortable emailing someone on the list for tips.  Ok, and maybe I do feel a little more comfortable asking another GIRL for help, because while not all hard core raider BOYS are sexist jerks, some of them are.

  7. If Reversion and I wanted to, we could hard core raid. Somewhere there would be a guild we could work with, a schedule we could keep. Nomster goes to bed so nicely, we both suck at housework anyway, and even these days when I’m working, it’s 30 hours a week and at home so I can get errands and chores done during the day. But we don’t choose to, because it’s not us. But I think that’s true of a lot of WoW players. It’s my perception that a lot of the hard core raiders are young, early 20s guys who have no family or steady girl or other hobbies. Which throws out the question once again of why there are more of these guys than their fellow-age-mate women… or perhaps I’m just wrong.

    • Yeah I hear ya.  There’s always a WAY to do something if it’s truly a priority.  I’d have to pay a housekeeper to get all the other crap done!

  8. I have frankly felt alienated, and on the ‘wrong side’ of several of the recent gender based posts, but yours made me smile. I too work with the small-people-all-asleep, dishes and washing done, THEN raiding is OK philosophy. It’s good to hear about someone else with similar priorities. (And my house is more like 95/5 — he does take the rubbish out!)

    • I must confess, for me it’s (1) Small person sleeping (2) raiding (3) dishes/laundry… but the dishes and laundry can only wait so long.  I can put them off for a night or two, but can’t keep up a hard-core schedule.

      And tell your man to pick up a broom or something!

  9. My woman doesn’t raid and I have 3 kids. I have no fractions to worry about. I am total casual. I’m not a woman so it is not relevant to this story. I just had the urge to tell you.