Well you’ve heard me yabber on about VP and how I hate getting them, but how I don’t really have much of a choice in the matter.

Capping VP every week isn’t reasonable for my life as a casual raider.  But at the same time, we were very much struggling in the beginning without any T-12-equivalent gear.  Clearly some out-of-raiding work is required.

There once was an ex-guildie who strenuously objected that I did not do dailies.  To him, this omission meant that I was clearly not serious about raiding.  To me, dailies were lower priority than heroics to get gear.  He assumed I had time to do both – which of course was erroneous!  Based on the time I had, I chose to focus on heroics.

Right now, I’m doing some valor point grinding (not capping), and no dailies, because the dailies gear is not that good for my class/spec.  Maybe someone out there is incensed that I am not doing my dailies, or not capping vp.  I, on the other hand, may be irrationally stabby at someone who, after all this time, has not obtained a piece or two of VP or faction/dailies gear.

I clearly think that the person who expects me to do dailies is being a little too hardcore.  But am I being too hardcore in the (admittedly moderate) amount of work outside of raids that I expect?  At what point does “not being hardcore” morph into “not making the effort?”


Walking the (Casual Raiding) Line in Firelands — 18 Comments

  1. Reminds me of when we realised the other week that some of our raiders were still sporting blues and missing the odd gem and enchant. There is not wanting to pressure people and there is feeling like they just don’t care…

    • Now that the armory has the audit feature, I’m less tolerant of people missing gems or enchants. After all, you can simply look yourself up and see what is missing. It’s not as if you have to check each piece of gear individually.

  2. That’s a good question, and one I struggled with. Now that I have most of my must-have VP gear (and a lucky drop means I don’t need bracers!) I can relax a bit more.

    I think you’re an attentive enough person that you know when your lack of gear affects the raid. I’m pretty sure all the FL fights are doable without any VP gear at all, but having the gear makes it easier, as anyone would agree..

    As long as your raid is happy with your performance, don’t stress out.

  3. My raid team is in the same boat, and I set forth a simple guideline. If you’re not in primarily 359 gear, try to do EITHER Molten Front dailies or get close to VP capping every week. We only raid for 6 hours per week, but I figure asking this shows enough commitment to shoring up any weak gear slots, considering the guild provides cauldrons, feasts, and enchants as needed.

    • That seems about right. There are many ways of getting the gear you need. Well, OK, there used to be many ways, and now there are basically 3 outside raiding: VP, Dailies, and Crafted gear. However, these are probably things you should be doing even if you ARE primarily in 359 gear. When I first stepped into firelands with 359, it was rough.

  4. I think the AWARENESS of your (not you specifically) shortcomings is the most important thing. Things not working out in raid and you’re in all t11 gear? Well, time to do some “homework”, yep. Whether it be in the form of Molten Front upgrades, Valor Point grinding, hell even exhaustive theorycrafting/World of Logs analysis, the fact that you are doing SOMETHING to step up your game shows that you’re taking things seriously enough for whatever your raid setup is. And if it’s not enough? Chances are you’ll realize this and take further steps to improve.

    Awareness and willingness to put in the work – can’t ask for better than that, imo.

  5. My raid group also needs a bit of gear before we really gain momentum, so I also put my focus into heroics. The pieces are just so much better than the dailies crap. 2 more Valor pieces and I can resume doing dailies, but for mount and money, not upgrades.

    • I found that getting the t-12 2 piece bonus was huge in becoming more confident in firelands fights. And the VP stuff is just too damn good to pass up. On this tier, especially, a lot of it is BIS, so it’s going to stick with us until 4.3.

  6. As a DPS class, I do dailies while waiting on Heroics to pop (when I’m on outside of raids). I have little desire to do them otherwise and I’ve already gained the worthwhile rewards from them (namely a trinket and recipe for the squirrel launching scope).

    This is going to sound harsh, but gear doesn’t ensure victory. Some of the fights are tuned so one mistake (stood in bad, missed an interrupt, burning mana with inefficient heals, etc.) and it’ll all come tumbling down. Others require communication. Neither of those things are impacted by gear.

    If you’re failing to defeat a boss, you might be missing something in the strategy or you may have a weak player or two.

    You improving your gear isn’t going to fix that.

    You might be better off working with the problem player(s) if they’re willing to be worked with or replacing them if they’re not.

    Assuming you want to down bosses. If that really isn’t your concern cool… some friendly advice never really hurts though.

    • Gear still does matter, though.

      Baleroc is an utterly unforgiving fight: one mistake by the healers or the DPS in their rotation, and it’s a wipe. Maybe not an immediate wipe, but all your spinning plates are going to fall off their sticks one by one and the crash IS coming.

      When we beat Baleroc for the first time- no mistakes- we had six seconds left on the enrage timer. We had to pass on him the next time we had the opportunity because we had some DPS that were weaker than that first attempt.

      You can do everything right and still have just not quite enough gear for the encounter.

      • I did not raid this weekend due to Mama Murloc being in town. Baleroc was vanquished, but using 6 dps and 2 healers. The thought of 2-healing this makes me want to vomit. Of course, next time, it might not be possible. The 2 healers were a disc priest and a holy pally, two extremely strong single-target healing classes. We may not have a healing team as suited to the encounter next time. I’d like a bit of a gear cushion so we’re not squeaking out a win by bringing the class, not the player.

      • I’ve had guild members top the wow-heroes ranking on gear rather but utterly fail in raids. They had low DPS because they either died early or didn’t really know how best to use their abilities – “OMG I have to move? What do I do?! Can I get a rez?”

        Gear helps, it’s not the end all and be all.

        Just ask the Heroic Rockbitter I’m still using :( because I have the worst luck in drops. FWIW, I had three blues come FL (one wasn’t even a heroic version of the blue) and I still had the output comparable to better geared folks.

  7. A good starting point for a threshold is one hour outside of raiding for every hour inside. More than that and it’s not a particularly casual endeavor, because you’re spending more time preparing for the fun activity than actually doing the fun activity. Less than that is unclear. Just how casual are we talking?

    Be sure to do the Baradin Hold boss for an easy chunk of VP. It’s much faster than getting VP through any other means.

    I agree that the dailies are deceptive. The gear isn’t that great for the amount of time they takes. I enjoy them, though, so I’ve spent more time on dailies than troll dungeons, to the detriment of my gear.

    Trollroics are borderline. I spend three hours a week raiding, so by the above measure, I should spend at most three hours a week doing other things. That comes to about three troll dungeons, nowhere near enough to cap. I’m not going to feel bad about capping.

    If you raid for six hours a week instead of three, then capping VP seems much more reasonable. Sure it takes a while, but at least it’s proportionate to the time you spend raiding.

    • So then because I only raid on average 1.5 hours a week (can only raid every other weekend and am usually sat for 1 of 2 raids) I only have to do 2 heroics a week to be considered casual and putting in an sufficient amount of effort. AWESOME!!! And here I was at least going all of my regular heroics a week and if I didn’t get all 7 in I felt like I was slacking…NOT ANYMORE!!

    • The one-for-one seems reasonable, depending on how much gear you still need. On weeks that I don’t raid, I tend to farm more, and it evens out.

  8. I think it depends on performance. My druid in Eff hasnt bought any VP gear yet and still wears 353 gloves and legs (i think…). But the 2 times i raid with you guys, i didnt feel like i was underperforming at my job (of course, i do have the 378 cloak, neck, a ring from shannox and some 378 shoulders so it kind of offset the lack of VP gear).

    My druid in SiB only bought the T12 chest piece from VP so far (working slowly toward my T12 legs for the 2T12 bonus). He also got some unpgrades from bosses (ring, bracers). Once again, it doesnt hinder my performance.

    My main problem is simple lack of WoW time but as long as i dont weight down the raid, the amount of gear/VP i have shouldnt be an issue.

  9. I have to admit that it feels good not trying to gear for Raiding.

    However, since when did that ever stop a huntard from putting in his 2cents worth?

    When Caligan hits lvl 85, I plan on doing a few things. I will make endeavors to be Exalted with all Cata-factions. I plan on buying at least two JP pieces from the JP I’m saving up. I plan on getting to know every Heroic by heart (expecially the Troll). I plan of learning every need for Fish that we have, and adding a daily, maybe every other day, contribution to the Guild Bank. And finally, I plan on running every stinking FL dailies I can.

    Now, why would I do any of that since I don’t want to Raid?

    First, I want to have all of those little green Rep-bars to Exalted AND at 999…b/c I’m OCD like that. Next, I like to have the best gear I can get, using the means most available to me at the time. Thus, my reason for saving my JP and HP for later. Finally, I want to be an asset to the guild. Hey, I may end up as ToLR..but, if someone has to put up with me as tank then I want to be a prepared as possible. If I can help a guildie run thru a Heroic b/c s/he desires to be capped, then I want to be able to do it.

    Will I ever Raid? Probably not. I have no real desire to. I often come online after a Raid is finished, or at least near it’s end. Again, it just isn’t a priority.

    But, as long as I’m online, I may as well be helpful about it.

    …and I consider myself to be the penultimate of casual player. :)